Life As A Brazilian Expat in the Netherlands

Leaving your home to live elsewhere is always a challenge.  Fernanda and I talk about how, despite the challenges, moving abroad can be a wonderful opportunity for growth. 

In this episode we talk about:

• How living abroad can be like a fresh start
• Challenges of navigating a new health care system
• Tips for dealing with seasonal depression

Get a written recap of the episode here: https://jonesinfortaste.com/life-as-a-brazilian-expat-in-the-netherlands/

Fernanda, 32 years old, graduated in arts. Now a holistic therapist who works with Reiki, Herbs, Akashic Records Reading, and handcraft candles @zielehuis. She also runs the IG @momdernist where she discuss motherhood and feminism (in Portuguese). Her first e-book about having children in the Netherlands will be released shortly, first version in Portuguese but English is on the way.

Guide on how to teach your children to be world explorers available here: https://jonesinfortaste.com/how-to-world-food-explorers/

Want to follow our adventures traveling and living abroad ? Follow Jonesin' For Taste on Instagram to catch all of our latest adventures? Stop by, send me a DM, and let me know what you would like to know about being an expat!

Transcript

Life As A Brazilian in the Netherlands

Jade: [00:00:00] Our world is becoming ever more interconnected as communities become more diverse and the internet allows us to discover more about the world around us. When we seek to learn and understand the differences between our culture and others, we can develop an appreciation and love for them. As we teach our children about new countries and cultures from around the globe  we are also teaching them to have compassion, respect, and empathy. 

Hi, I'm your host, Jade Jones, mom to four children who I want to be compassionate world explorers. Join me as we discuss cultural awareness and world diversity and learn how families teach their children to explore and embrace the world, it's people, and their differences with a compassionate heart and open mind.

Do you know, someone who you think would be a great guest on the podcast? Send me an email jade@jonesinfortaste.com or DM me on Instagram. We're always looking for new guests to share about their culture and countries around the world. 

Hi everybody. Welcome today. We are talking with Fernanda from Brazil. She also lives here in the Netherlands.

She met and married a guy who was Dutch. So Fernanda, go ahead and tell us a little bit more about yourself. 

Fernanda: [00:01:05] Yeah, I did not marry. That's that's a very good difference from Brazil also, because here, if you're not married in the paper, you're not married. You are married even though you live together and have a kid together, you still present the other person as a boyfriend for me was yeah, promoting the change.

Okay. So I have a boyfriend, which is also my kids' Dad, my kids, no, my only daughter's dad. I've been living here in the Netherlands for the past four years, I am an artist, but I changed my career on, on the way. And now I am a therapy , holistic therapist here in the Netherlands. 

Jade: [00:01:48] Cool. So what caused you to decide to change from art to holistic therapy?

Fernanda: [00:01:53] Yeah, because, well, I, to be an artist is very difficult everywhere. Not only money-wise, but space-wise also, and when I moved here, I I've been always a new spiritualist person, but when I moved here, I discovered Reiki. So I received the first attunement and then I did not stop anymore. So in 2016, I started working as a high-key practitioner.

And from there on, I just keeping, like doing other courses, older techniques, like Kashic records, reading technical healing. But I'm also an herbalist because I do, I understand that we need to treat our spirits, but we also need to treat our body because we are inside a body. So I started going to this herbs path.

So I am a herbalist with focus on natural gynecology, and then holistic therapist. But I put it all together on the same boat. So I work pretty much with women that's what I, I do. Yeah. 

Jade: [00:03:00] Cool. Yeah. I find that very fascinating. That's quite the adventure along the way of finding your own path.

I studied economics in college and that's what I got my degree in, but definitely I'm not using it. And I run a food website. So totally went like right field from that. 

Fernanda: [00:03:19] Well, in theory  you are kind of using it, but in a different way, I think our graduations, they gave us maybe what we needed at the time.

But life goes on and then we start finding other things and that's still totally fine. 

Jade: [00:03:36] Yes. Like finding ourselves in the Netherlands.

So yeah. So how did you and your boyfriend meet? 

Fernanda: [00:03:46] Ooh like. Pretty much. I think 90% of the people nowadays with apps, dating apps. I was living here in the Netherlands for about two years when we met. But we live in different cities. So I got to be honest. I don't really know how that happened because we live in different cities and it was one of those apps that I think people were close to you.

So probably at some point we cross somewhere. And he appeared in and to start talking. And then when he was there, we used to live in Amsterdam. Now I live in Rotterdam, so he was there and then we just went out for, for dinner and we've been out for dinner ever since. 

Jade: [00:04:31] That's wonderful. That's fun. So what brought you to Amsterdam then in the first place?

Fernanda: [00:04:36] Yeah, I was in Brazil. I had my life pretty much settled. I was working as an actress because I'm an artist, but I'm an actress actually. And I was teaching drama to kids in Brazil and I was very fine financially wise. I had a house, I was buying a house. I had a car. I mean, I had everything that a person 20 years old would like to have, but at the same time, I was like, yeah, but, okay, but this is it.

Will I like. Stay here forever doing this, which I love, but at the same time, what else? Like what can fill me, you know? And I thought it would be great to move abroad to have this experience. I did not count that I would not go back to Brazil. Actually. I had that open. Like I would go and see how it goes.

So I moved to the Netherlands to do a master because I also did not want to just move for the sake of moving and then not having a goal purpose here. So I moved to Grandmaster. I studied at a university in Amsterdam a master degree called artistic research. It last two years. And I graduated in 2018, I think the summer of 2018.

So that's what brought me here. 

Jade: [00:05:49] Okay. Yeah. So why this drive to. Do something different? 

Fernanda: [00:05:54] I think it was a very conscious decision in a way, but not really. Cause I, I am one of those persons that believe that we are all here for a purpose and I don't really like to call it that I received a call kind of from the universe, but it, in a sense it does work like that because things are happening.

Like I started Hakey and then one thing pulls the other. And when you look, you, you are totally with a new kind of information, like an instruction, you know? And it just made sense to me to, to work with that. I did not abandon totally the, my artistic practices because I thought it would be great to have, like, not only this.

Holistic therapies and natural gynecology consultations. But I, I thought also would be nice to have like a project, like an object to sell because some people do not understand treatments as something as material, because it is not material, you know, it's not, you cannot touch it, feel it, but it cannot touch it.

And then I started making candles with dried flowers, and now I feel that that's kind of where I put my creativity in a sense. So yeah, now I make candles or aromatic candles also to treat for treatment through aromatherapy. But now I'm putting my artistic practice there, I think, and I am writing. 

Jade: [00:07:18] Yeah. So tell us a little bit about your writing. We were talking about it before we started recording, but go ahead and share some of that. 

Fernanda: [00:07:25] Yeah. So I always like to write well being an artist. I like also to write poetry. So I started with that actually. And when I have my kid, when I was pregnant, actually I was, I had, well, when you are in a new place that you pretty much know nothing about the system, how it is to have a baby in the Netherlands.

I read a lot of blogs from expats, from Dutch people, even though I don't read Dutch that well, but Google translator always help us and Brazilian bloggers also because there are quite a few here in the Netherlands, but at the same time, I didn't. Have one place that I could find everything you need to look for information kind of everywhere.

And then it was like thousands of websites and thousands of blogs and everything. So I thought, wouldn't it be nice to have all this information condensed in one thing that you can have instead of having to go to all the. To all the websites and blogs and have to do all that huge research because it is a research in a sense also because of values and prices of things to have a health insurance, if you don't.

And now this is small particularities of having a baby here. I thought it would be nice to have all this information in one thing. So when my kid was born, my daughter was born. I started writing a new book. I just release it in Portuguese, in Portuguese version. I intend to translate to English, but the name is "Having babies in the Netherlands, a guide to pregnancy, labor or delivery and the first few months of the baby in the flower land", that's the name of, of the book. 

And then I go through the entire process. So health system, how does that work? Who does your delivery, where you can delivery? Because in Brazil, it's now it's coming back. But in Brazil you have delivery in the hospital here in the Netherlands you have the option to deliver in your house with the same person who would make your deliver in the hospital. And that's for free. That's covered by the insurance hospital. It's not so. There are several small things that it's great to know beforehand. Also a values, how much that costs. And my intention is to re-edit the book every two years.

So that because I, I put the price of things. So the intention is to keep it up to date so we can help and assist more women and family that are having babies here. 

Jade: [00:09:55] Oh, that is such a valuable resource. I, as somebody who has done lots of Googling to try to find answers and then sometimes reaching out to the officials that I do have contact with here, trying to find the answers.

It definitely is a long process and there's often not clear answers and articles are, you know, from several years ago. So you're not sure of how accurate they are. I definitely think that is something that makes people really nervous about moving abroad is trying to navigate things like that. I know for us.

Trying to manage the health system, especially in the time of COVID has been a little dramatic, especially at the height of it, right at the beginning, I have asthma and we don't have, well, I just got my permit today, eight months, nine months after we moved here. 

Fernanda: [00:10:39] But nine months that's significant. It's it's like a delivery. Yeah. 40 weeks.

Jade: [00:10:46] So I finally accomplished my due date, got my permit, but I don't have a Dutch social security number. And so that made it really hard to find a doctor who would see me so that I could get an inhaler. And so I was stressing out and finally I realized I have a friend who is a nurse practitioner here. And so I was able to reach out to her and she got me an inhaler until I could find someone, but that is a really overwhelming experience if you are trying to tackle this all for the first time.

 So I think that resource like yours is incredibly valuable. 

Fernanda: [00:11:15] Yeah. And I think, especially during the pregnancy, because wanting or not, we have hormones, so we are like, kind of all over the place to be honest. And it's very difficult to find your answers when you are in that situation. 

Jade: [00:11:31] Most of it, you are emotionally compromised when you are pregnant. 

Fernanda: [00:11:34] Exactly. That's a great way of describing it. 

Jade: [00:11:38] Yes. Done it four times. My husband is very grateful that we are done because yeah, that was always one of the hardest things for him.

I'm not usually a terribly emotional person, but pregnancy, I am all over the place and he was always like, what is the matter? I was like, Oh, Oh, Oh, I don't know. 

No, I love you, but I don't 

Fernanda: [00:11:56] know. I can look at you right now. 

Jade: [00:11:58] It's like, I'm just so stressed out, but nothing's happening. Yeah. Good times.

So what are some of the things that you have found? Is there anything that you have found is similar between your life in Brazil and here in the Netherlands? 

Fernanda: [00:12:15] I think the Dutch people are people who really likes to spend their time out outside. That's quite similar with Brazil. Of course we do have winter here that I cannot even compare it to the winter in Brazil for yeah, obviously.

Jade: [00:12:31] Yeah, I'm from California. We don't really have a winter. 

Fernanda: [00:12:35] No, we don't have. Yeah, exactly. But I see Dutch people as people who really like to go out into socialize, even though it's very difficult to pop their bubble and entering to the Dutch. Small groups study. It is a difficult, I do have a partner that is Dutch, so it does make a little bit easier.

But still, and the language barrier and everything. But anyway, I think that that's, that's a feeling that I get, especially in Amsterdam when it's summer, when the weather's getting better, people are all outside. They go out from work and they just sit down at the park. They really enjoy their time outside because the winter can be very bad and sad but still in the winter.

I do see all of them going out. For dinner for a drink for a bowl hole, bowl hole here. And is it's like a happy hour. It's how they call their happy hour. So I think they are very outgoing in this sense, even though they're kind of close within their own people. 

Jade: [00:13:35] Yes. And that has definitely been a common theme of everyone that I've talked to who has moved here. That definitely the Dutch are, they are very kind, but to actually make real meaningful friendships can take a while. And I definitely think that's one of the hardest things, at least for me personally, about moving here. That that is hard. 

Fernanda: [00:13:57] It is, it is hard, but I also think is due to their culture because even in between them. I think they kind of have just like, not even a handful of friends, like good friends, you know, in Brazil we probably have a four times that, but it's a culture. It's a culture difference. Yeah. 

Jade: [00:14:21] Yeah. So what has been some of the things that you've noticed besides the weather that is really different? 

Fernanda: [00:14:28] Have you heard the weather as an answer? How many times do you know? 

Jade: [00:14:32] Well, it's funny because I definitely have talked to, I've talked to another girl from Brazil, India, Bangladesh. I mean, I interviewed a girl from the U S who was living in England and kind of, that was like general, like the weather, the weather here is definitely very unusual if you haven't lived anywhere this far North.

That it's, I mean, in the winter, it's dark at like four o'clock it's doesn't get light until like nine. So we have a very short day. It's very wet and it's very windy here and it's cold. And because of the humidity factor. It's like bone chilling cold. 

Fernanda: [00:15:05] Yes. Yeah, the weather definitely. It is a huge difference for me. I don't complain much about the weather because I'm not really a super Brazilian loving the heat kind of person. So these days, because. We are, we're talking today's one of the hottest days of the, probably the year, probably of the entire summers. Exactly. So I don't really like that either, but what else? I don't know. The weather is quite, yeah. The weather is a big thing. 

Jade: [00:15:38] What about food? 

Fernanda: [00:15:40] Yeah. The food is very different. I kind of see there for there a little bit. I like, but it is a little bit boring in the sense that they use kind of the same ingredients for everything pretty much. So potato is a big thing and then like sausages.

And I do think that they eat healthy, but the meal system is very different from Brazil in Brazil. We have a very good breakfast. With bread fruits, coffee, everything. We have lunch as an warm meal because here they only have warm meal at dinner. Most of the time   In Brazil we have warm meal for lunch and warm meal for dinner or.

Dinner, we eat more like their lunch here. So just a salad or a bread or something like that. So these, these was a big change for me now I'm more adapted to it, but in the beginning I was like, man, I cannot just eat like a sandwich for lunch. Yeah. Doesn't work like that for me. And I think even though they are very friendly people, which they, they super are, there is this barrier to get, to actually know them.

Because in Brazil, we are more out and expansive in a way here. I think there are more insight, even though they can talk very loud. Have you seen a group of Dutch people talking just female and just male? It's very loud. 

Jade: [00:17:06] See, and I think that's funny cause Americans are really loud 

Fernanda: [00:17:09] and Brazilians are really loud 

Jade: [00:17:15] and kind of like very conscious that my family is usually the loudest ones around.  I'm constantly telling my children, like we can talk quieter. Like you don't need to yell at me. I'm standing right next to you. I mean, universal problem. I've seen other Dutch parents I've listened to them, telling their children, the exact same things. So universal problem with children. But my husband has lived in Europe before and he constantly is telling me like, shh, shh. So it's just been a very interesting experience

Fernanda: [00:17:41] and we are not yelling. I understand. We are not telling we're just talking loud, we're passionate. Yeah, exactly.

Jade: [00:17:49] Yes. I'm also Polynesian and Hispanic and all of those things. My husband didn't truly understand me. He's very white. His DNA is all white and grew up very white.

So when he married me, he was constantly like, why are you always so like hyped up and so loud. And then we had a neighbor who was Peruvian and she was the exact same way. And he's like, Oh, it's a cultural thing. He's like, I don't know why, but it never made sense to me. He's like, that's just who you are.

And I was like, yeah, but it was, it took him meeting somebody else like me, for him to like, Make that connection. 

Fernanda: [00:18:18] Yeah, totally. I am half Spanish and resident half Spanish. So passion goes all around here. And my daughter also, my, even though my daughter is Dutch, very much Dutch and white. She does have an Spanish temperament. She was only 11 months old, but I can see that flamenco going on there inside of her. 

Jade: [00:18:39] Oh, children. Yes. It has been very interesting to watch my own children as they develop their personalities and how some things just seem to stick. It doesn't matter where you live. It doesn't matter kind of the environment like certain things are just, it seems inbred in their DNA.

Cool. Cool. So what is something that you've loved about moving abroad? 

Fernanda: [00:18:58] I really like to meet new people and to have new experiences, even the bad ones, like feeling lonely or are not understanding the language. I think that's all part of our growth as people. So I really like that. I, I live in Lena. I went to Canada when I was 18.

My godmother lived there to learn English. I spend there kind of four to five months. But that was a huge experience for me. And I really liked that experience too, going away and meeting new people who don't know you because there's also this thing. When you say where you were born, it's all. Okay. It's a very privileged thing.

But when you stay where you were born, people saw you grow. So you have friends in Brazil for some, I have friends that I studied with when I was 13 and we're we still talk. Regularly. So they saw you growing, but some things stick with them and maybe sometimes they're not that anymore. You know, you, you grew, but you changed.

For example, when I was in Brazil, I was only an artist and a drama teacher. Now I am. I'm still that, but I'm not that only anymore. And sometimes people don't know, cannot evaluate or see all this growth or all this change which can be bad. Also doesn't have to be always good. Right. So that's something I really like, which is moving and starting over.

How can we perform ourselves? Because we are performing ourselves every time. We're never. Just ourselves, but how we can start fresh kind of what can we learn from the process? So that's something that I really like when I do that. I don't think I will do that again. 

Jade: [00:20:49] It is definitely hard. We've moved around a lot, but we did have the opportunity to move back to my hometown for a few years and it was actually not a very fun experience for me because being back around all the people that I had known as you know, I mean, many of these people had known me since birth, but had not seen me really since I'd gone off to college, but they definitely looked at me still kind of as that child, not as the, now 30 something year old with a family.

And it was a very, having moved around so much, it made me realize how much I enjoy being able to grow and have people see me where I am now instead of where I was then. And that's, that is a fun, but challenging part of moving constantly, or even just moving and starting fresh later in life. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, what have been some of the things that you have felt have been really hard about living abroad? 

Fernanda: [00:21:40] Well, the distance for sure. I was never very connected to my family. Like I don't need to talk to them every day or even every week. So in the beginning, that was totally fine, but then you get pregnant and then that understanding changes.

So for me, the challenges that I had in the beginning are not the same that I have now for me, the challenge in the beginning was just to. Find myself discover who I was in this new place, because I was single, I was studying again I was back to university. I was working, but just to like working kind of to, to survive during the time.

So I think that finding myself in that moment was the, the biggest challenge. But then when I got pregnant, I noticed how I would like to have my family around. You know for everything like to see my belly grow, we can talk, we can do zoom meetings. We can talk on WhatsApp, FaceTime, but it is not the same, you know, not having your mom around or dad around to see how you are changing also, and to be there for you and to, yeah.

So I think after I got pregnant and now that I have a baby, that is the most challenging thing is to be far from, from my family and from good friends that I still have that, that are in Brazil because we can still talk, but it is different. 

Jade: [00:23:11] Yeah. No. And I, we go through the same thing. Every time we live, we lived close to our family and it was like, maybe this is too close, but now that we are half a world away, it's definitely too far in a lot of ways.

And it's. You know, finances and stuff can make it very hard for anybody to visit and yeah. Online or FaceTime. It's only so valuable. It's can be kind of chaotic and it's not the same as face-to-face, 

What's something that you think people should know before coming to live here? 

Fernanda: [00:23:45] Okay. It is a great country. I really like living here, but they're always also problem. The weather, depending on where you're coming from, it can become a problem. We spend like sometimes 15 days without any sun, the food, the food is easier because it can cook home, but might be also a problem. But I think the thing that people should be the most prepared is I know two things, the financial side of it, because one thing is you're moving here as an expat.

Because then you are hired already by a company. They might even get you a house. You can make great agreements, you have a tax reduction and everything in another things you move in here as an immigrant, you don't have all those things. And in Amsterdam, for example, it's very difficult to find work, to live when you don't have a family or is not as structure kind of moving.

So the financial side of moving. I think it's, it's something you always have to take into consideration. Do do it move. Come here. I think is great, but just be ready for that. It might not be as easy as in other places. And I said it was to the end, the health system. I think the health system here is very particular, very different from most of the countries I've known now living here for four years.

I like how it is. I like the system, how it works, but it's very, very, very different. And sometimes you do need to like argue with your doctor. Look, I want to get an exam. I don't want, just to take a guess because here it's common to just tell y'all you just take a paracetamol. If it, the problem is still with you in, in two weeks, you'll come back.

And and sometimes like, ma I don't want to take paracetamol. I want to be tested and then you do need to stand up because they are not used to that. You know? So I think this would be, if I had to name two, three, three would be the weather. To be, to be aware of it, if possible, do not move here during the winter or the autumn, try to move here or in the end of the winter and the summer.

So you have time to meet people to go out a bit because otherwise you're just going to stay inside your house most of the time. And it's more difficult to meet people, the financial, because it is an expensive country and the health system. Just be aware it will be different. You might need to stand up for, for, for your needs, but it does work fine.

Jade: [00:26:28] I think. Yeah. It's funny that you mentioned the not moving here in winter. That's exactly what we did. And yeah, coming from very sunny California to here and I already deal with depression that at some point I finally realized that I was starting to become very, very depressed all the time and was having a really hard time coming out of it.

And in talking with a friend, she was like, Jade, start taking vitamin D get yourself like a lamp. And I realized, yes, it was very much the seasonal depression that was aggravating already my depression. And it was amazing how much those things helped, but it is a very. Something, you have to be very aware of if you have not ever lived in something like that before.

Fernanda: [00:27:09] What's helped me a lot. And I started doing it only like after a year and a half, that I was living here. Like after two winters, I discover it was suntanning. 

Jade: [00:27:19] Hmm. I've heard a lot of people do that too. 

Fernanda: [00:27:22] That and Dutch people do that like once a month or so. The first time I did, it was in the end of February. I left, I was smiling. I was so happy because I was just been 20 minutes. Like under that light, it did, it did change. It did change how I was feeling. So that was something good. Not to do every day, but once in awhile, it's something that can help you. 

Jade: [00:27:51] Yes. Cause sometimes it can be very depressing to look at the weather forecast and see nothing but rain for 10 days and know that you may not see the sun and going out mean, I mean, I think the Dutch are very resilient and they just are like, we're going to go outside even though it's raining, because if you don't go outside when it's raining, well, then you're never going to go outside because I mean, even in the summer, it rains a lot. Yeah. But yeah, it's going out and having sunshine is a very different thing than going out and being in the rain.

Fernanda: [00:28:17] That's also a tip for someone who is moving here. The first thing I bought when I, move to the Netherlands was the raincoat. 

Jade: [00:28:24] Yes. Raincoat. And if you have kids like some galoshes or like rain boots, cause man, do they love to splash in the puddles? And that was something we, we spent like the first, probably couple of months just having all the shoes on the radiator. Cause all my kids were like, look a puddle. And I was like, right.

Fernanda: [00:28:39] Yeah. And they are everywhere. Oh, it's just one like everywhere. 

Jade: [00:28:46] It rains a lot. So you are bound to find some really big, deep puddles and my children love to just slosh right through them. It's something that we will have to make sure we prep for for this winter before my children decided to go run through all that again.

But yeah, and the finances, it is definitely a very expensive prospect to move abroad. That was something that we had tried to prepare for that, but. We also, hadn't accounted for the fact that often governments, when you move abroad, they want you to prove that you can provide for yourself and that you're not going to be a drain on the system.

And so we had to have a lot of money to provide for our family upfront. And so that was something that was kind of a downer that although we had money and we had an income, they still had the minimum level that we had to meet. And it, it was a lot of money. It was essentially a year salary though, since my husband's a student.

I mean, he had a student loan and I think also having things prepped ahead of time, too, if you like, we had money in our US bank account, but we had to transfer it to get it to our Dutch bank account. And that was quite a process that we hadn't anticipated taking a long time. But so if you are thinking about moving abroad, those are things to research and yeah.

So, well, how has living abroad benefited you?

Fernanda: [00:29:57] Tremendously. I think apart from having a family now, It's I think having new experiences in cultures that are, even though we're still in the West, it is different. And different culture, how people live somewhere else and having the chance to be immerse in it.

Because one of the thing is you traveling to Europe to go to touristic cities. Another thing is you knowing where is the best the best bakery, the restaurant that are like the most, where people do their grocery shopping. So I think that's, that's something I would recommend to everyone to live. At least it doesn't need to change your entire life. It can be like just one, two months in one place to get to know this place, that people, so that that's something I loved a lot too, but I cannot not say that moving to the Netherlands changed me. Not completely, but a lot in the sense that I found a new profession, I found a new passion and I do feel more complete from the inside now working with what I work now with holistic therapy, with natural gynecology.

And that's what I want to do for other women also, you know, to help them find their connection with themselves here or anywhere, because it's not something that you have to do it here, but this move for me, it changed me in this way. I don't, I don't know, but I'm pretty sure it would not have happened if I had stayed in Brazil in this way, you know?

Even though Brazil is a very spiritualist country, much more than here, but I don't think that would have happened to me there. So for that, I'm very grateful. And of course, for, for the family I have now. 

Jade: [00:31:56] Perfect. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your experiences a think it's. It was a great, so if people want to reach out to you, how, how would they get in contact with you?

Fernanda: [00:32:09] There are two ways to get in contact with me. The first one is my account on, I have two accounts on Instagram, actually one focused on maternity and feminism, which is where I share information about also having been a mom in the Netherlands. The name is so M O M D E R N I S T momdernist. And the second one is where I have my work with holistic therapies, nutritional ecology, and the candle making, which is at zielehuis which in Dutch is the house of the soul. So ziel is soul and huis is house. So, so that's how you can find me online and just send me a DM and I will try to help. Yeah. Yeah, that's how you can find me. 

Jade: [00:33:00] Perfect. And we will make sure to drop those links in the show notes. So go ahead and head to Jonesinfortaste.com/podcast, and look for Fernanda's episode and we will have the links to her Instagram accounts there.

Well, thank you so much. Fernanda . 

Fernanda: [00:33:17] Thank you very much. It was a pleasure. 

Jade: [00:33:21] If you enjoyed this episode in this podcast, please take a minute to leave review or screenshot your podcast player, and share with a friend or on social media. Make sure to tag me on Instagram stories at Jonesin for taste. Don't miss out on an episode by subscribing to the podcast and signing up for my free introductory guide to teaching kids about other cultures.

You can sign up for email reminders. Get the guide and find the show notes by visiting my website. Jonesinfortaste.com. Happy exploring.